I was reading khazadman's comment on a Sammy Davis Jr's album posted here and it came to my hehead a will to name the best entertainers.

take into consideration

a) Vocal capacity
b) PErforming capacity
c) Fun capacity
d) Quality of past recordings
c) impersonations ( imitate other singers )

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Just using the list provided I'd have to go with Cab Calloway. He created this hipster character that lasted from one age to the next. He had great musicians in his band, Dizzy Gillespie etc.. He create the silly but era defining Hipster's Dictionairy and some of his songs continue to be recorded.

Sinatra was on a whole different level. He could be funny and a minute later gut wrenching. If this poll is based strictly on "entertainment", meaning constantly causing an audience to smile and feel good I'll say Cab if you mean Jazz only.

Yeah, Calloway was very good too. I hate to say it, but "entertainers" today just can't hold a candle to the old timers.

Who would be called a genuine entertainer nowdays?

I am really questioning u guys...

Cab Calloway definitely takes the cake for pure fun factor...everytime I hear a Calloway song it makes me smile! Louis Prima is right up there too though. This list made it difficult...so many good entertainers. Too bad there aren't many around like that anymore...still, there are some...just not as many.

Jimmie Lunceford is missing. I suppose that he was the best stage entertainer and big band leader from that time. So sad that he hasn't recorded a lot. (Or I'm just not able to find it)
~luh

Luh, first of all, wellcome ;)
As for the nomination, you are totally right. My bad. Jimmie Lunsford's orchestra was one of the great Jazz Bands along with Basie, Ellington, and Chick Webb. In many ways, they were the popular royalty of swing, because they presented a higher level of entertainment and were probably more popular among African Americans than Ellington, and were longer lasting than Basie.

Hope you can share the albums you have ;)

luizoak wrote:Luh, first of all, wellcome ;)
As for the nomination, you are totally right. My bad. Jimmie Lunsford's orchestra was one of the great Jazz Bands along with Basie, Ellington, and Chick Webb. In many ways, they were the popular royalty of swing, because they presented a higher level of entertainment and were probably more popular among African Americans than Ellington, and were longer lasting than Basie.

Hope you can share the albums you have ;)

It's just a few songs :( About 3 or 4. Way to few for a Swing DJ... - so if there is any other one on the board - JIMMIE LUNCEFORD - that's the one we're looking forward to.

Btw luiz, I couldn't find the other movie link I've sent you along with the Killer Diller movie. Or did you post the Fabolous Dorsey's movie by now? (Now you know who I am ;) )
cheers
luh

Ohhhhhhhhhh hey thewre man. Well I did not post the other movie, cuz I lost the link. can u do that? Btw I am downloading some Lunceford's albums ;)
Gonna post anyday from now.

looking forward to lunceford!! ya man ya man.
luh
p.s. i posted the video by now

I chose Sammy Davis Jr. in the poll. In my opinion, he was the best "all around" entertainer. He could sing, dance, tell jokes, do impressions and act, and he was excellent at all of them. When I think of an entertainer I consider the charismatic qualities too. It must be someone that you cannot stop watching no matter what they do. To me, Sammy was this guy.

TO me PRIMA was this guy

Ah.. have they ever met on stage???

Prima is the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Prima is the most, I think. But Cab Calloway is one of the greatest too.

a) Vocal capacity
b) Performing capacity
c) Fun capacity
d) Quality of past recordings
e) impersonations ( imitate other singers )

Could you define each one of this cause i can't make a stand. I like prima and calloway but i also like the crooning styles of bobby darin and the members of the rat pack. And in my opinion d) and e) should not be taken into consideration because i believe they have nothing to do with the quality of their recordings. Recording engineers are reponsible for the recording and mixing quality and also impersonations is not a factor. they all have different vocal styles and in which they just need to be more creative in rendering a song.

I dont think that d) and e) should be ignored. An entertainer MUST have the capacity to choose a good repertory to cheer up an audience and compromise with the quality of his recording history. And also should be wise enough to chose also good technicians. As an exemple, PRima has one of the best sound quality CD on "Wild Cool and Swinging" and the records are OH SO OLD.

But you also can blend all the letters a, b c d and e into one: J(oy) ;)

what about cab calloway's are you hep to the jive? did he chose the quality of recording to be mono instead of stereo? perhaps the technology was not available during the time of recording. anyways, that's only my humble opinion. by the way that's a good topic to debate, Mono vs Stereo ;)

Hummmmmmmmmmmmm ^^

Mono vs Stereo. Allright, create a new topic! I am in ;)

Even though, I might not make friends with this, but:
I don't like Prima so much. He is responsible for Sing Sing Sing, but what he did later, with his later wife, was just not as cool. Maybe he was a good Entertainer, but his music wasn't even close to the music others performed, as there are Andy Kirk, Jimmie Lunceford, Count Basie, Kay Starr, Louis Armstrong, Woody Herman, John Kirby, Oscar Peterson, Nat King Cole, Lester Young....
~luh

Prima in spanish means "cousin". Hehe...
Louis Prima Louis Prima Louis Prima Louis Prima Louis Prima Louis Prima Louis Prima Louis Prima...

Luiz,

I wasn't going to post anything on this thread because I prefer to agree with you rather than disagree, but for me, it is not even a contest. Cab Calloway is the easy winner. Prima is okay, but he is not even close, for my tastes. There is no denying that Prima has had a tremendous influence in music. However, I can listen or watch Cab Calloway all day, but I get tired of Prima very easily. In fact I don't think Prima would even be second for me, Sinatra probably would be.

I think it would be interesting to see where the votes for each performer are coming from. Based on the responses, who people voted for seems to be very regional in nature. I am under the impression (my guess...true or not true..I don't know?), that many of the votes for Prima are from South America. I would guess that North America might like Calloway better? The exposure to each artist through popular culture in different regions of the world might be different and would have an influence on voting.

I know it would be very easy to find out, do followup polls. Question would be , "If you voted for Prima, please indicate where you are from...{list choices}" "if you voted for Calloway, please indicate where you are from...{list choices}."

There's one not on the list ... Luiz.

I vote for Luiz for bringing more than ANYONE to the jazz scene ... at least the recent jazz scene ... at my house.

THREE CHEERS FOR LUIZ!

HIP HIP HOORAY!

HIP HIP HOORAY!

HIP HIP HOORAY!

Ok, enough sucking up ... I have work to do.

Wow that was ethnic and I partially agree. WHy not fully? AS an artis, CAb was a conductor, a master in musical art, but as for ENTERTAINER, Prima beat him. Calloway could not perform a role as Prima.
That's my humble opinion.

Steve wrote:There's one not on the list ... Luiz.
I vote for Luiz for bringing more than ANYONE to the jazz scene ... at least the recent jazz scene ... at my house.

Steve, dear. you haven't seen yet Luiz playing Pizzarelli... his performances are better than anyone's here. ;)

I really think that Louis is better than Cab - Louis makes everything looks improvised through his clumsy gesture, while Cab seems to have all the moviments calculated. it brings more sophistication, but not more joy, in my opinion. Cab has it's performances routines (hair and "Hi-De-Ho" hands) while Prima changes constantly his stage behavior.

I give more credits for those who produce more with less.

Ok, time for a new Poll. Anyone?

luizoak wrote:Ok, time for a new Poll. Anyone?

Great idea ...

but I'm afraid my suggestion for the next poll is going to be very self serving.

I'd like to know where the members and moderators think the line should be drawn between "Jump Blues" and "All Other Blues."

I feel like some of the stuff posted in "Jump Blues" belongs in the "Other Blues" category but I don't like imposing my ideals and preferences on anyone.

What I'd really like is a consensus of our membership to decide where to draw that line so that I don't have to be the bad guy telling folks they posted in the wrong place.

What do you say? Care to relieve me of this burden?

Oh man, Jump Blues and Other Blues sometimes are just impossible to identify.

You, as moderator, have all the authority to move the posts ;)

luizoak wrote:Oh man, Jump Blues and Other Blues sometimes are just impossible to identify.

You, as moderator, have all the authority to move the posts ;)

Thanks a lot ... bitch.

JouJoux wrote:

Steve wrote:There's one not on the list ... Luiz.
I vote for Luiz for bringing more than ANYONE to the jazz scene ... at least the recent jazz scene ... at my house.

Steve, dear. you haven't seen yet Luiz playing Pizzarelli... his performances are better than anyone's here. ;)

I really think that Louis is better than Cab - Louis makes everything looks improvised through his clumsy gesture, while Cab seems to have all the moviments calculated. it brings more sophistication, but not more joy, in my opinion. Cab has it's performances routines (hair and "Hi-De-Ho" hands) while Prima changes constantly his stage behavior.

I give more credits for those who produce more with less.

ever seen Cab dancing to Minnie The Moocher. It's in the begining of an old video clip, made for children. I forgot the title. betty boop or something. he obviously was able to dance like dancers. that is insane for only a "conductor". So he is never only a conductor. and even if it was planned. his big fat grin, no chance to beat that - ... maybe except you take the same drugs
luh

I really was going to stay out of this discussion, but enough has been said so I simply need to make a couple of points.

It is not really possible to define "best entertainer". It is too much of a subjective area. Things that could have been included might be "permanent legacy", influence on other entertainers, contribution to the growth of "jazz", etc. And mostly, the choice of the word "entertainer" as opposed to singer, yet using "vocal capacity" in the criteria implies that the singers were much more significant than Goodman, Ellington, etc. Not fair. The title, given the choices, should have been "Singer".

Given the restrictions of the defined criteria and the choices provided, I feel the clear leader is Sammy Davis Jr. He was without peer when it came to performing on a stage. If we can use the word entertainer to mean entertainer rather than singer, Sammy was miles ahead. A great dancer, great singer, actor, one of our all time best impersonators, and always peppy, he had a charisma and style that pushed him well past all others. In each of the given categories, you might find someone equal or a shade ahead, but put it all together and, by god, it's Sammy.

I also want to give tribute to a couple of others. First, there has not been any mention of Nat King Cole. I understand, because he was not an exciting figure. However, he was a marvelous jazz pianist (actually one of our very best) and a great singer as well, and his popularity continues. I think he fell short in the "fun" category, but hell, he was certainly a great entertainer. Just not a "high energy" one. Does that make him less great?

Lastly, Benny Goodman. He did more for jazz than anyone on the suggested list. But the reason I list him is more social or societal than anything else. Yes, he entertained, and did it exceedingly well. No, he wasn't the absolute best. But Benny did more for race relations and making it possible for blacks to be heard than anyone else. He integrated the music scene of his time, and made what had been limited to a small black audience a popular style with whites. That, of course, enabled so many heretofore starving musicians to grow, develop and lead the jazz scene. We have an awful lot to thank Benny for. If he hadn't come along, the likes of Basie, Ellington, Calloway, etc., would never have spread beyond Harlem and the chitlin' circuit, and our music today would be a great deal less interesting and exciting. If I could include importance as part of the criteria for defining best entertainer, it could wind up here.

Well, see what happens when you give me a soap box - I get carried away.

But given the established rules, how can anybody be ahead of Sammy? He was the ultimate entertainer across so many fields, while the others were limited to their singing.

Jeff

influence on other entertainers, contribution to the growth of "jazz",

I dont think so. In my definition of entertainment, there is no legacy subject envolved. TO entertain is to entertain an audience in the exact moment of their concerts, not their importance towards the whole jazz scene's growth.

You stand for Sammy Davis Jr. with passion and arguments that really made me wonder why have I chosen Louis Prima at first glance. I guess I can answer to that: personal taste and allthe arguments I used previously.

But given the established rules, how can anybody be ahead of Sammy?

Simple: different people, plural understandings for the word "entertainment". ;)

Talking about different people...how to compare Bing Crosby and Screaming Jay Hawkins...they seem to be from a different planet

It's to difficult to choose between all these guys...Prima rules allright but what to think of the Ratpack in total?