There's a swing versus bebop thing that happens a lot. A lot of people talk about bebop versus the avant-garde, but there was a heavy swing versus bop thing, too, even though bop was utilized in swing. BUt let's focus.

To classify is not necessarily to demonstrate capacity to understand music with presumption and pride of your own distinction beetween people. Music was made for being appreciated, l'art pour l'art, but to leave a debate like Swing and Bebop is is maybe to lose the chance of defining the intelligible reason for liking more something than another thing. Music isnt merely a "thing", unprovided of feeligs and poetry. Moreover, feelings can be analysed, and so music can aso be put under a black/white optic. Like, dislike? Why? It dont mean a thing if you aint got that debate thing.

We cannot classify our fondness as "Jazz That I like". By doing that we could be making a huge mistake and breaking a chain of healthy events that goies like this:

apreciation-opinion-debate-research-learning-apreciation-...

SO here is my opinion: Bebop was made of swing tail Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker, Bud Powell, and Thelonious Monk were all inspired by Coleman Hawkins, maybe the first bebopper. They wanted to add an extra technique dose into the vibrating swing from the 30's. I just think they overdosed it. Fast tempos and improvisation based on harmonic structure rather than melody. Melody prevails. Can anyone go out on the streets and hear a Mile Davis song being whistled? I think music is all about being not only remembered and worshipped by the structure used on it. Music is legacy.

:)

Since I appreciate both I can't say one is better than the other. I know a lot of Swing fans were horrified when some of their favorite bands started bopping..Claude Thornhill is a big example. "Can this be the band that did "Snowfall?" Music has to change to be fresh and as old fans stay with the Swing they like new fans perk up their ears and enjoy themselves. Benny Goodman's Octet with Wardell Gray is another overlooked group. Not hard boppers but enough elements to make it different from the previous trio and quartet.
Parker and Gillespie said during practice sessions they has msuic books with the basic scales and that's what they improvised on.
Speaking for myself I like it all. Yes, it depends on the mood I'm in as to what I feel like listening to but I'm glad I can listen to Bix one hour and switch over to Maynard Ferguson the next. I'll listen to Ornette Coleman, Cecil Taylor and other "Free Jazz" artists now and then.
Overall I go from Edison cylinders on up to......alledged smooth jazz. A previous post covered my disdain for that treacle trash.
My advice to Jazz fans, give it all a try. The more you listen to the more you could like. You could be missing a lot by making snap judgements.
One of my closest friends is a smooth jazz DJ so that's why I tried it. We're still friends.

luizoak wrote:They wanted to add an extra technique dose into the vibrating swing from the 30's. I just think they overdosed it. Fast tempos and improvisation based on harmonic structure rather than melody. Melody prevails. Can anyone go out on the streets and hear a Mile Davis song being whistled?
:)

Very difficult to discuss a theme witch begun at the beginning of the 40ths. Swing was music for dancehalls in the 30ths. In the 40ths the war started, the time of the well known dancehalls was over (taxes for them were rising for example). And maybe the musicians disliked the big business around Swing in this time.

Sure - it's another theme what I like and dislike. ;-)

Luiz,

I swear I must have read your write-up about 10 times and I still am not sure what your position is. So, do you like bebop or not? I take a hint from the fact that you do not have a bebop category here in this forum as a clue.

As for me, I love bebop/bop and I love swing/neo-swing. The two genres do not compete, they are just different.

As for why bebop came about, I think drugs may have something to do with it. Many bebop artists were known to have taken drugs. So your comment about, "they overdosed it" is literally true as well as figuratively.

I will make myself clear: I started this discussion based on a talk I had with steve, in wich he apperently eliminated the need of anyone to have a technical explanation about what he likes od dislikes in terms of JAzz. I cant quote him because I could not find the topic. OK, I did not make myself THAT much clearer, but to sumarize: "MElody prevails". So I'd prefer swing than bebop/hardbop, because swing has more historical projection beyond MUSICIANS-CRITICS only. Basically I believe that these people worshipped too much the the sinous career of Miles Davis and ignored important names on the swing scene such as Louis Prima.

Steve has a very strong point, it almost caught me, but then I realized that I had this need to find a tangible reason to love swing. Found it. IT's above. :wink: